>> before technology, i'm sure technologically we can do all sorts of things. >> before technology. >> before technology do virgins -- how would i know? have i don't know, it seems to me if you're trying to establish the legitimacy of mary being a virgin one thing you would want to inquire is if it's ever happened independently of mythology and technology. >> well, i would wonder how i'd have access to that information. there is -- >> well, you're among all those boston scholars. what do you do in recreation, don't you ask questions like -- >> no, that tends not to be one of the things we talk about. with my grandmother, yes. with scholars, no. >> so you come down on the side that it was a true virgin birth, correct? >> i think it's very clear that the gospel writers thought so. appear we have no information with which to dispute them. i'm willing to go with it. >> may i say one more thing on this point? one of the things that the gospel writers do and matthew and luke in particular of the four that we have, is that they turn to using the bible, the jewish bible, the only one there is